Timmins city council is not any closer to solving the increasingly tedious debate over the city's smoking distance bylaw.
At Monday's meeting it prompted Councillor Mike Doody to burst into a heated scolding of Councillor Rick Dubeau over his use of a local business owner's name.
"Mark Soucie told you that if we did this, his business would die? Tell me. No tell me that he said that! I know Mark Soucie," said Doody.
"He said that his business would have a detrimental effect bigtime" said Dubeau.
"That's not what you said earlier" snapped Doody.
Earlier in the meeting, Dubeau in fact said: "He's a non-smoker. Never smoked in his life. But he says it would kill his business," regarding a discussion he said he had with Soucie
The issue has been smoldering at council since June and has been a part of numerous agendas. City staff has requested that council approve an increase in the distance required by smokers to be from any entrance, to any public place, from three metres to nine metres. It is staff's opinion that this amendment to the bylaw would prevent groups of smokers from congregating near entrances and causing negative impact to said establishments. When the matter was first brought to council, there were questions asked if the city had the authority to enforce this policy.
On Monday City Clerk Steph Palmateer said that council has the ability to designate sidewalks as a public place, and that the city's bylaw would supercede the Smoke Free Ontario Act.
Dubeau has said he is against the amendment despite not being a smoker himself, and having family members die from smoking related causes. His concerns stemmed from personal freedoms, enforcement capabilities, and the impact on business.
"This would essentially put it in place that people can only smoke in the middle of the street. It doesn't make any sense. The business owners that I've spoken to, I'd say 90 percent of them are totally against this," he said.
Doody said he wasn't buying Dubeau's comment that the Third Avenue business owner believes he will lose business because of the amendment.
"I truly find that hard to believe," he said. "Because you can't smoke, people are not going to go downtown and shop in the store? Jeepers creepers."
Doody compared the situation to the Timmins Square, which at one time permitted indoor smoking, but subsequently banned it, and has remained popular.
"The majority of people now know that smoking is bad for you. Its bad for you."
There are legitimate questions about how often the city's current bylaw is being enforced, and what amount of tangible impact the amendment would have.
After several more bouts of input, Councillor Pat Bamford just wanted to get the whole thing over with.
Many of the garden beds in the BIA area have become home to hundreds of discarded cigarette butts. Andrew Autio for TimminsToday"I can't see any consensus here obviously. The enforcement will make the three-metre or nine-metre, irrelevant," said Bamford, stating that under the bylaw, all a person has to do is keep walking, and not stand in a doorway, and they are permitted to smoke. He also said that he is often critical of the general lack of bylaw enforcement in the city.
"I would probably vote for this simply to get rid of it, because we'll never have a consensus, and I don't think its enforceable," said Bamford.
Councillor Andre Grzela wasn't on board with Bamford's sentiment.
"I respect where you stand, but I wish you could maybe have a conversation with the Clerk, because they did a lot of the homework," he said.
Grzela added that there is a 'bigger picture' in play, citing several decades of government anti-smoking initiatives at both the provincial and federal level. He said it was the city's responsibility to follow suit. He noted that in early August, the Porcupine Health Unit made a presentation at council outlining the generally poor health of Timmins area residents.
"Our rates are higher. We have a responsibility to care for those people. Enforcement or not, its a positive move to demote smoking," he said.
Dubeau said the city should get a formal legal opinion on the matter before proceeding. He motioned for a deferral. Voting in favour were Councillors Bamford, Joe Campbell, Dubeau, Doody, and Mayor Steve Black. The deferral was carried.
Councillor Andrew Marks then asked what the next steps are.
Black said that no vote on the matter will take place before two important documents are received.
"I would like the letter in writing from the Ministry to be presented to council, and a legal opinion in writing to be provided to council, to put this issue to bed once and for all."
